Onewheel accelerates without reason & self balance gone

27 February 2016, 21:12 UTC

@cornfeedhobo Fellow patient Android user here. You can switch modes by laying the board on its side with the power button facing up and charge port down. Press the power button and watch the light blink. Tap the sensor footpad to cycle through the three modes. Two blinks = classic, three = extreme, four = elevated. Dont worry if you can't count them the first time, they're really fast; it'll keep blinking in this position. I'm on day four and have already found exteme mode to be most comfortable.

28 February 2016, 01:13 UTC

@cornfeedhobo The only possible way for a single-wheeled device to keep you from nosediving when you're closing in on max speed is to speed up. Sounds counter-intuitive, but that's physics, and that's how self-balancing works in the first place. If the motor were to just let you max out, you would nosedive. If it were to simply not go any faster, you would nosedive. If it slowed down, you would nosedive.

Speeding up is the only option aside from no warning... unless they come up with another warning sign, like a beep, or a vibration in the pads, which is my favorite suggestion so far.

28 February 2016, 01:17 UTC

@thegreck What I have described happens at very low speeds, like crossing the street. I am not leaning forward, and in some cases am literally dragging the tail.

Second, I understand physics; I am standing on a hub motor, not a free wheel. Forward motion is not required to alter board orientation.

28 February 2016, 01:36 UTC

@cornfeedhobo said:

Second, I understand physics; I am standing on a hub motor, not a free wheel. Forward motion is not required to alter board orientation.

It actually is. The forward motion is what causes your weight to shift backwards, which is how it keeps the board level. Forward movement is replacing forward tilt.

28 February 2016, 01:39 UTC

@thegreck Not to compare to Segway, but search for "segway pushback" and you will see what I mean. When they speak of pushback, they are literally meaning that leaning forward is impossible because the motor does not let it happen.

I found that it just gave so much resistance that I even had trouble getting top speed on an uphill. I don't know what the technology is, must be the gyro counter-acting when the leveling sensor hits a certain angle. I've heard that these gyros have neen in the nose of 747s since the 1970s (if one fails, the plane will become difficult to control). A very small gyro can have a very big effect.
http://forums.segwaychat.org/archive/index.php/t-497.html

I know this because I have ridden one many times and remember how weird it was to feel it straighten me upright. I believe you are thinking about it like a free-wheeled board, but the motor should be able to shift it's relative position on the axle, even while in motion. Think about when you first mount, is the board rolling to keep you upright? No, the motor instead works against the axle to keep you standing straight.

All of this though is moot. What I am talking about happens at such low speeds that pushback should be far from a concern.

28 February 2016, 01:58 UTC

@bmtka just took it out for a quick ride on extreme for the first time. it is insane how much better that felt and handled. thanks for the tip!!

28 February 2016, 02:00 UTC

@cornfeedhobo http://youtu.be/rmlg5QkusFQ?t=52s

28 February 2016, 02:09 UTC

@thegreck Notice that the platform changes pitch? That is what I am referring to. Why am I being launched forward at a nose dive?

28 February 2016, 02:12 UTC

@cornfeedhobo Hmmm... not sure. I found this though... just posted it as a new topic. Haven't seen a Segway accident before this one: http://youtu.be/YlwuCBP2W4M

28 February 2016, 04:31 UTC

@thegreck haha, ya I have never seen something like that. Your link sent me on quite a youtube journey. Then I went out riding and switched between classic and extreme a few times. The stability I gain in extreme is tremendous. So I think you are right, the board is trying to do what makes sense, speed up to get in front of the rider, but what is missing is pitch change. To be fair, I am not sure how one would do this. Watching the videos made me think maybe the control stick on the segway plays more of a role than I realized in influencing a rider's behavior.

Also, I was playing around with the tail dragging situation and I think this is a new rider problem. The sensor thinks the weight is still forward of the axis, and it probably is. When it pushbacks/accelerates, it's so fast, my first reaction is to lift my front knee instead of shifting weight properly, and since every second counts when it's accelerating like that... it's an interesting problem. I would love to see the code and access sensors. I wish I could gather sensor data from those events and see what is up.

28 February 2016, 05:07 UTC

@cornfeedhobo Agreed. You're not the first one to have a problem with pushback. It's a pretty huge issue. I hate it, and a lot of us feel they should give us the option of turning it off and we can just judge our speed based on the sound of the motor. When it reaches top speed, it has a high-pitched whine... so when you hear it, you should slow down. No need for pushback once you have a bit of experience. That unexpected change in speed pushback brings kinda sucks.

28 February 2016, 05:16 UTC

@thegreck @cornfeedhobo So here's a question then: When we experience automatic acceleration in extreme mode and are leaning backward as a result with no ability to decelerate, what action do we need to take to get the board to recognize that it is ok to give control back to us again? In other words, what specifically should I do when that happens and/or to prevent it from happening?

28 February 2016, 05:25 UTC

@jkel101 That's a good question, and it's why I don't like the pushback. It's not inherently clear what you're supposed to do, especially for inexperienced riders, and it's causing people to wreck. I think the idea is just to stay balanced, allow the front end to go up, then after a second it should level back out and slow down and you should be back in business. Maybe @Future-Motion can chime in here?

28 February 2016, 05:52 UTC

@jkel101 straighten your body, hard, then force your feet to push the board forward, this should force a lean. That is what I got so far and it's pretty reliable, but difficult to do.

@thegreck Agreed. I have heard the whine once and it was more than obvious. This is a tough problem I will be thinking about for a while now.

29 February 2016, 09:47 UTC

@jkel101 said:

@thegreck @cornfeedhobo So here's a question then: When we experience automatic acceleration in extreme mode and are leaning backward as a result with no ability to decelerate, what action do we need to take to get the board to recognize that it is ok to give control back to us again? In other words, what specifically should I do when that happens and/or to prevent it from happening?

I think it is very easy, just shift your weight backwards. Best way to do this is is from your hips.
One should also understand that moving your weight backwards doesn't mean tilting the boards tail to the ground, although like mentioned here before, you should allow the boards nose to go up.

So in short, when you feel the board tilting (pushback), move your hips backwards and you will slow down.

29 February 2016, 14:38 UTC

Thanks for the thoughts all. Been riding for a year now and def helpful to get some additional perspectives on it. Will give some of those moves a crack. Pretty much what I've done when it happens is (1) stay relaxed (don't spaz); (2) continue riding straight; (3) after 10 seconds or so things stabilize. In every case where it has happened, the acceleration causes the my body weight to shift backward and the board to tilt the tail toward the ground. No question whatsoever that the board does not decelerate as usual when this situation arises. I think that the lack of normal deceleration control is the main problem and nowhere has onewheel / @future-motion said that this is or should be the case, which makes for a pretty dangerous problem in either the software or in their communication around how the product works. If it really is my perception that I have shifted my body weight back since the board is tilted, but that my body weight is actually forward, then this particular issue needs some offical TLC in the user guide and in some videos to show folks the nuances of a proper response to this feature.

Only time I had to bail was when it wasn't so easy to handle items 1-3 above as I was on a city sidewalk this past week and was transitioning into a crosswalk with a bunch of people around - - bailed into the grass, cracked my fender, chipped my rear foot pad. Bummer.

29 February 2016, 17:57 UTC

@jkel101 Were you in Classic styling? Otherwise, how were you going fast enough to trigger pushback (15mph) when riding through a crowded crosswalk? I rarely even reach that speed when riding on an empty sidewalk. I'm asking because if you were in Classic mode, it's one of the main reasons I don't like that mode and feel like they should remove it. It limits your speed so much and puts you into a dangerous position by making you speed up when you're barely even moving.

29 February 2016, 22:05 UTC

@thegreck was in extreme mode (even double checked the setting afterward) and I don't think I was going so fast that it would trigger pushback, but I was cruising along handily. It was a surprise to me when it happened. I'm in DC and maneuver through crowds no prob (like a runner would through folks walking), but I'd be shocked if I actually hit 15mph.

29 February 2016, 22:49 UTC

@jkel101 That's pretty scary.

2 April 2016, 18:25 UTC

@Willy said:

Classic mode should be banned. That shit is dangerous... lol...

Wow, i was riding today And casually i started tilting backwards But still accelerating like crazy, i was one inch from touching The ground And amazingly i managed To stay up. This is Not The first time This happens.. only on classic though, extreme seems Better in every aspect