Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.

12 January 2019, 16:24 UTC

@flix123 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

For these low speed crashes I have the feeling it might indeed be down to intermittent hardware issues of individual boards (assuming most users have upgraded to latest firmware ). At low speeds there should be plenty of power available to balance the rider, especially on the XR.

I am one of the low speed crashes on your survey. I had 90 miles under my belt, started feeling a bit cocky. This was before all the forum advice on how to ride. I was almost home, battery close to drained, but figured I had one more lap around the park. Of course there were people around watching, so I leaned heavily into it to accelerate from a very slow speed and barely knew what hit me when I was on the ground. Fully geared, but the cheap gear I had bought slipped off my elbows and knees and I still got some road rash.

@jlk250 said in Nosedive on flat path. Crash #3.:

A common nose dive scenario is a rider trying to cross an intersection quickly and nose dives as a result, long before they accelerate to high speed.

I also experienced this around 900 miles. Nosedived, but after my first 2 nosedives, the Fangs had been invented and saved my a##. :) I even put them on my new XR before I ever rode it.

As someone said above, we have to be careful what we assume from this survey.

12 January 2019, 20:34 UTC

Fully understand that ND can happen at low speeds because of sudden acceleration, incline or bump in the road or a combination. But I still believe some are due to hardware issues, because: At least 4 low speed ND respondents have reported the OW was turned OFF after the ND. That alone is quite worrying, its 4 out of 72 cases (what I don't know is if all or some of these are from the same person, that would skew the stats of course).

Another 6 low to medium speed respondents reported they were travelling constant speed (no acceleration) on level ground: also bit of a worry. So its not really true to say its always due pushing on the gas too hard or going uphill

12 January 2019, 21:21 UTC

@flix123 - "out of how many" is a really hard-yet-important question to answer. I've seen 3 different videos of faulty footpad sensors causing runaway boards, and heard anecdotally of two others (one of those is a friend of a friend, so I know it's valid).

And each time, people say, "yeah, a faulty sensor is bound to happen once in a while."

And that's true - but out of how many? What are there in the US, maybe 50,000 OWs in the wild? Honestly 10K per state seems generous.

So if you start to hear enough stories of a particular defect, it gets worrying, because 4 or 5 isn't that many out of a million, but it's a lot more out of a hundred. And if runaway boards can be common, some bystander's gonna get hurt sooner or later, and then there'll be hell to pay.

All of which is to say, I think what you are trying to do is valid, but there will always be some pretty important missing numbers in these equations - and Future Motion sure isn't going to provide them.

12 January 2019, 22:55 UTC

@Glyph I agree, we cannot know all the numbers, esp not how many are sold but I wanted to have a picture of roughly what % of ND seems unprovoked and that I have now. It makes me ride even more careful and alert which is a good thing

13 January 2019, 04:38 UTC

Was riding some steeper hills today and not really going too fast, maybe 10-11 mph. On one particularly steep section I felt the motor surge, and thanks to this thread, I backed off a bit and still had enough to finish climbing the hill slowly. Thanks, and keep up the stories, to help us allfrom your experiences.

13 January 2019, 06:50 UTC

Had a ND at about 3 mph yesterday, just jogged it off. I was crossing a street at a sidewalk and my wheel went into the area of the road that funnels water down the side, and it just happened that it was the exact dimensions as the wheel so it just sorta got stuck.

15 January 2019, 20:37 UTC

@sidjtd Hello all, first post.

I ordered a XR after riding one for 3 hours. Before that it was 49 years since I was on one, back in the days when we only had clay wheels. I'm 64, am I the oldest here? :)

It arrived a couple of days ago but I won't be taking it out until my ribs heal (unrelated to OW). I've just been practicing balancing in one place in our living room. Like most new owners, I've read many posts on various sites about nosedives, so I also ordered a set of Fang that haven't arrived.

My first question is why the fangs only slow down the abrupt stop, instead of allowing the board to continue rolling. It the wheels are free rolling, why don't they keep you going along on the 3 wheels? If it unexpectedly turns off and the nose dives, wouldn't the tie rotate freely and start coasting? Why the sudden stop?

15 January 2019, 21:58 UTC

@sdonewheel Assuming a smooth-enough pavement (Fangs are not very large wheels, and could be defeated by a large enough crack in the pavement for example), and you staying on the board, it SHOULD keep rolling. Many riders report recovering from (some) nosedives and continued riding, if using Fangs or similar nose wheels.

Without Fangs or similar, a nosedive will DEFINITELY be a sudden (meaning, IMMEDIATE) stop, you will be thrown off the front of the board via forward momentum, and at that point your only hope is to run or roll it out.

15 January 2019, 22:27 UTC

@sdonewheel also when the board is on, there is resistance in the motor. Try turning on the board and without engaging the sensors, roll it about a foot then turn it off and try it again. You’ll notice the resistance. I’m not sure but I believe in some (possibly most) nosedives there’s still that resistance there because the board doesn’t completely shut off. I have fangs too but haven’t had a nosedive due to speed. I have hit the nose going up a steep incline and rode the fangs the rest of the way up the incline until the board could level out.

16 January 2019, 12:45 UTC

@kd6tav Difficult to remember because I had just crashed hard, but I think I had to turn the board back on to get home.

16 January 2019, 12:49 UTC

@scott_pdx Hi Scott, yes, I know what a pushback feels like as I have experienced that before when trying to push the board to high speed. This time there was no pushback- all I could feel was an "elastic" surge forward and then the shutdown. I am running 4208.

16 January 2019, 12:54 UTC

@flix123 My crash was definitely not related to pushing too hard or going uphill. And: everyone I know here in my local community who rides a OW has crashed due to sudden shutdown. That's just simply too much of a likelihood. I am not going to stop riding and just ordered my fangs, but I am really hoping for a solution from FM very soon. Thanks!

16 January 2019, 15:39 UTC

it's not my fault i ate it. it really isn't. blah blah blah. yeah, it really is your fault you ate it. yeah, you don't know how to ride, yeah that was pushback and bad riding position. if the board is speeding up its because you have too much weight on the front of it. its trying to raise, you're holding it down. it speeds up because of you preventing it from doing its job and dumps you after warning you to get the weight off the front. if you sink your rear knee towards your front knee you will get the weight off the front. if you try to lean back you'll straighten your front leg keeping the board pushed down and accelerating. stop blaming fm for you not being a good rider.

16 January 2019, 20:07 UTC

@tomfoolery Thanks for the replies. I guess the bottom line is that the Fangs give you at least a chance to run it out (as long as the Fang wheel aren't made of clay)...

16 January 2019, 21:28 UTC

@tomfoolery I have the feeling the wheel does move freely after a nosedive, as I read another poster has this (kind of funny) problem: When he has a nosedive going up a particular hill and eats it, his onewheel sometimes just rolls back down the hill by itself so fast that he can't catch it.

17 January 2019, 00:19 UTC

@raz it's 99.9% likely that your analysis is completely accurate, which is very helpful for people to learn, but why you gotta raz him like dat?

25 January 2019, 01:46 UTC

@carvingUSA Yeah I've taken three HARD spills at around 18-19 mph within the first month of owning my XR and tore my hands up pretty good. Started wearing half finger guards to help slide on the pavement in the case of a nosedive, but recently purchased Fangs and am really happy with the purchase. I'm about three months and 446 miles into owning my onewheel, and havent fallen again since that first month, but knowing you have that little bit of protection/ability to slide makes a world of difference.

26 January 2019, 01:24 UTC

I bought my O/W used with fangs already installed, rode it 500 miles last summer, no falls and the fangs saved me twice, both times entering a steep transition onto a sidewalk. Last week I was running up to the store to get a six'er as I had just downed my last two beers. Going up a steep hill there's a transition (think 2" X 12" ditch) in the pavement I'd sort of forgotten about. I hadn't ridden in a couple months as it's winter in the northwest. The fangs did try to save me but didn't and I went down and rolled with the fall. Got an ass bruise from my wallet and hit the back of my head, but not much blood. I don't feel any dumber than usual so no brain damage. I'm 74 and can't afford that. There's 6-7 Onewheels in the neighborhood and if just ONE of them would ride with a helmet I would too.

26 January 2019, 01:41 UTC

@speedracer Be a trend setter! I'm 60 and last year crashed on my snowboard with no helmet. Got a minor concussion, don't recall the lift ride back up the mountain, and had to be transported down just in case. Bought a nice MIPS helmet for snowboarding which doubles for use on my OneWheel (just remove the ear warmers). I see all kinds of people with/without helmets, but the smart ones wear them! Not preaching, but I learned the hard way.

Also a big believer in the fangs as they've saved me a couple of times as well. I have them on both my + and my XR.

27 January 2019, 18:40 UTC

@sdaiberl The Onewheel is not entirely safe, period. Of course there is no way for the manufacturer to make the OW "gradually decrease in speed". It uses speed to hold you up so you'd nosedive if it tried. Audible signal would be useless for this particular application as well, as whatever environmental cue knocked you over was instant. Also, it is not "shutting down". It is giving 100% but you are asking more than 100% (the OW suffers from the lever effect so don't make it feel bad by calling it weak >.>). There is so much to say on that topic such as, wide stance means more nosedives, decel uphills, etc. Most will be common sense. If you are going 15+ mph on a OW regularly you are "sniping with a shotgun". The OW is king of ~10 mph carves, 180s, 360s, bonks, drops, and burnouts. E-skate is king of 15+ mph. Unfortunately, you are on the wrong board for this activity to be safe. You will need to either accept the risk (which is physics, not manufacturer related) alongside practicing mitigation and restraint or switch to an Evolve all terrain eskate. Also, 15 mph on a surface that isn't rock solid like dirt or grass can be the equivalent of full speed on pavement, in that not enough power remains to pick up your slack when you hit a bump. If you are offroading at this speed you will begin to notice nosedives for very minute and seemingly nonexistent reasons. You may even nosedive when the dirt transitions from packed to loose. You get the idea, be careful.

No matter how way they work it, the OW will always nosedive when speed or acceleration is pushed to the limit (nature of an inverted pendulum) and when electronics failures occur. No electronic equipment on the planet has a 100% track record making the OW a little sketchy right out the gate. (I'm not picking on you dear OW. I <3 you.) If you want to offroad the OW, you will want to know how fast you can run off a nosedive. Finding this out is as easy as hitting a pothole to create a nosedive. I recommend doing this daily so that you will slowly increase your skill in doing so and therefore increase the speed at which you can run one out. This will mean safer riding at higher speeds. I apologize about hitting so many of your preconceptions in one go. I am not aiming to offend but rather inform. This is a serious issue that requires a complete grasp of concept (unfortunately, there's still a lot I didn't say here). Good luck and I hope you can find the OW wheelhouse in a way that suits your style. Cheers.

31 January 2019, 01:01 UTC

@OneDan I'm like most of my ski buddy's. they never got a helmet till after their first concussion. This is my 65th year on the mountain (Mt. Hood) over 1,000 days with no helmet. So far...…. so good.

31 January 2019, 16:12 UTC

@speedracer please get a helmet

22 February 2019, 21:42 UTC

@sdaiberl
I have had a similar issue. I was cruising in mission mode, having a blast carving big turns at 12-13 mph on my +XR. Board shut down completely and would not power up again. I was thrown to the pavement and if I had not been wearing protective gear I would’ve definitely broke a wrist. Screwed up my shoulder pretty good. Had to carry it 3 miles back to my truck. Took four days on the charger before the board would power up again and the odometer was set to zero. Sent to future motion and they claim to have replaced the control module. The entire process took about 3 weeks and I am only one day shipping from San Jose.
I have not ridden it since I got it back and I’m not sure I want to get on it again and risk another power failure and asphalt slam. Future Motion is very careful not to confirm there is any type of power failure issue. Their responses were always “sorry you are having problems” Without going into any detail. I think they know they have some liability issues. I have filed a complaint with the BBB and I’m trying to get a refund. If that doesn’t happen I assume I’ll sell it. Only 65 miles on it. Very disappointing!